Get back to me in seven years, when youre ready to order. Women, denied a meaningful role in politics, formed their own organisations, writing tracts, pamphlets and poems, gathering signatures for petitions and fundraising: At certain times and in certain places they were the engine room of the movement.. As would Beyonce. people like Olusoga would have to pay their share of the greatly increased taxes Should black history be taught all year round? The following decades were taken up with popular and political rhetoric about immigration and parliamentary acts to limit blacks coming to Britain. not at all to disparage your ancestors GC. I have done nothing. True that unlike certain other examples of slavery, you werent likely to be killed as part of a religious sacrifice or as part of your owners funeral. He is a Cultural Marxist trying to destroy the West. We do not know enough to be sure. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andr_Gide, Less flippantly, Western countries are not of one mind when it comes to the age of consent sex with a 14 year-old is legal in some countries, criminal in others (yes yes, paedophilia versus ephebophilia etc, you got me). Nevertheless, we live in a society that generally regards slavery as an absolute and eternal wrong, and a grave one at that, yet which has historically (at least certain people and places, and including the state itself) benefited from imposing slavery on others.. It does not take people long to starve to death and slaves were paid for. David Olusoga What do you think their stongest argument is? I learned the hard way. It built slave forts on the African coast, some such as Bunce Island in Sierra Leone furnished with a rape house. Will Britain change? arguments are pretty weak since relying on a doctrine of virtues of the fathers risks implicitly accepting sins of the fathers.. Hes welcome to pursue his line of thought but he should bear in mind that tolerance is, by its nature, in the gift of the powerful. Rapidly promoted to sergeant, then second lieutenant, he led white British troops into action and died in 1918, having been mentioned in despatches and recommended for the Military Cross. Tim may be wrong about stuff, but ..that, ultimately, makes up for his beating squirrels to death for a hobby, Tim Worstall a horrid man who is anti-minimum wage among other repugnant things Socialist News. This year, return to Neverland. Yet theyre so many centuries and generations removed from the crime, everybody involved with the decision-making is long-dead and while the responsible state still exists, in practice compensation comes from taxes paid by citizens who had no part in it all. Slavery didnt last much longer for various reasons, fizzled out in a century or so, but we have the records to show it was still part of the system after twenty years of Norman rule: https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/domesday/world-of-domesday/order.htm. My great, great, grandfather was one. Thy did not try to grow or raise the next generation. That involved killing the adult men. The Westman Islands of Iceland have an interesting history in terms of European slavery a major rebellion of presumably mostly Irish (Westmen) slaves was put down there in the typically brutal Scandinavian manner, hence the name, but in the 1600s the local inhabitants were themselves enslaved by Barbary pirates and taken to Algiers, from where a few were ransomed back and one wrote about the experience. It may not. Fired by religious feeling, they embarked on a campaign of public education and political lobbying unprecedented in scale and revolutionary in nature. Would, say, Huguenot-descended South Africans suing France over the 1572 St. Bartholomews Day massacre, or Cornish people suing HMG for the suppression of the 1497 Rebellion, deserve compensation? Britain should be proud of helping to stop (African to America) slavery, like the Republican Party and unlike the Democrats. Pope Nicholas V gave his blessing, so long as the Vatican benefited. This is nothing to do with slavery or as with black lives matter, blacks being shot, and everything to do with a shakedown of the white man. You can be redeemed, you worthless pasty people. Everyone was. Grew up in Quedlinburg. You might have heard of a Romano-British chap called Patrick, got enslaved and nabbed to Ireland? (If the likes of SMFS believe Western society will fall apart without a return to traditional Christian-inspired values, I suggest they either don a pessimists crash-helmet or just cling on and enjoy the ride to Hell in their top-gear handcart. June 16, 2020 - 20:29 BST Aisha Nozari. The historian and producer said he wanted to. How could Britain, a civilised and Christian nation, indulge in rape, torture, killing and the forced labour of Africans over two centuries? Hundreds of White women raped every day. The arguments do you want to get shaken down for several trillion? Just means they werent alone in being in the wrong. Purely speculatively, and as a matter of prediction rather than judging whats best, its hard to imagine large-scale reparations ever being adopted in Blighty because the ratio of losers to winners with the vote (presuming eg British Asians would be ineligible for compensation) is going to remain unfavourable and the cost of reparations across the relevant parts of the old Empire (if youre compensating British Jamaicans, presumably youre going to compensate all the Jamaicans in Jamaica once youve accepted the principle) would be considerable. "They were barely known even to historians. Those who grew rich on slavery and the slave trade were not neutral and no achievement or act of philanthropy justifies airbrushing their involvement from history.. They did not pay for them and were going to kill a lot of them anyway. A newsletter showcasing the finest writing from the ideas section, covering political ideas, philosophy, criticism and intellectual history - sent every Wednesday. See, five years ago I wouldnt have written a crass comment like that, but hey, times achanging and as financially independent with some FU-money, I dont have to worry about cancellation culture, LOL. So is Richard Murphy. But those were in those long-lost days when democrats and republicans could talk to each other and agree to disagree while both leaving the conversation a little the wiser.. A House Through Time returned to BBC Two in May for its third season, and once again is fronted by historian extraordinaire David Olusoga. Deliberately shipping that many people that far in order to participate in a newly-created society whose economic system was designed, pretty much from the ground up, around slave labour? It can be withdrawn. Well the universe has a law of gravity but it doesnt have a law of should there be reparations. This ignorant fellow should study historical facts, rather than believing and repeating lies and half-truths. 5 quotes from David Olusoga: 'On a peninsula protruding into one of the great highways of the Atlantic slave trade, a few hundred refugees from British slavery in North America were attempting to recreate the social structures of Northern Europe in the Middle Ages.', 'Time and again events and phenomena that we think we know and understand contain within them lost or camouflaged connections to . I had a girlfriend whose mother was a Nazi. "They do not want British history to be a catalogue of heroes and victories and glorious chapters," he says. Black history: Should it be part of the wider curriculum? Blacks like Mr Olusoga despite endlessly banging on about it seem to overlook the fact that they are in a minority. But its still awful, even on a historical scale.. Once insignificant villages, great cities such as Liverpool, Bristol and Glasgow sprang up on the profits of slavery. Whitey bad, give me cash? I do not see what is different between a plantation in Africa and a plantation in Virginia. That is not true. But any planter who deliberately starved his slaves to death would quickly go bust. Olusoga, who presents the BBC documentary series A House Through Time, told presenter Lauren Laverne that racism was "just the background hum of life" when he was growing up. (As the first person to mention the Sokoto Caliphate ahh, forget it.). And that still stands even if there really are a bunch of torturing murderers out there too. As Black British History Month draws to a close, TV historian Prof David Olusoga looks at the impact it's had - and how young people are taking it on. Wider imperialism reparations that include South Asia, China for the Opium Wars and so on, surely even more prohibitively costly, regardless of how effective the education system gets at making young Brits feel a vague sense of guilt about it all. Viking Dublin was a major slave-trading centre (English, Irish, Scots, anyone else they could get their hands on). The historian tells Michael Segalov about getting up early, reading George Orwell, taking his dog George for a walk, playing his guitar Theres probably more mileage in my country, or at least its historical incarnation, fought against it because unlike the actual people involved, the state is still around. The exception is Tim Worstall, who is truly the Ron Jeremy of blogging. Duke University professor, William Darity Jr, and writer, Kirsten Mullen, jointly published a report for The Roosevelt Institute, an American liberal think tank, laying out a case for slavery reparations. I imagine few do. Anglo-Saxons had slaves. Wrong ?!?! The arguments do you want to get shaken down for several trillion?. The book accompanying. "We are on a journey in this country and other countries are on similar journeys to try and reconnect to parts of our history that had traditionally been edited out," adds Prof Olusoga. In the system that made Sloane wealthy, black women sought out herbs, plant species that he carefully identified and categorised, and used them to induce abortions, determined as many were not to bring into the world children who would be born items of property and destined to live short, brutalised lives. Now Im trying to imagine just what the strongest case for reparations might be, but even in this thought experiment its hard to see what the eligibility criteria for receiving payment should be, what sum should be due, how much proof is required of eligibility not everyone will have a good set of family records etc. Like I said, as a mental exercise, if I do my best good faith effort to imagine an argument for reparations, I reckon it would concern harms committed by the state (which unlike the slave traders and owners, is still about today) and an argument that it breached some alleged fundamental/universal doctrine of law so that even the states efforts to put the slave industry on a legal footing were null and void. There is an alternative argument that it is their ancestors who were wronged hence deserve compensation and as descendants theyre entitled to an inherited share (so their portion depends on how many slaves at what position in the family tree) plus interest, regardless of how well theyre doing now. It may have made sense for the SS to starve labourers to death. The good news is that Black Lives Matter may be that trigger. Would probably have taken your suggestion as a challenge. If black lives really mattered these people would be protesting the 500 shot dead so far by predominantly black men in Chicago this year. Tim says there might be some truth to them for the Caribbean. If one disproves his assertions would slavery then be okay? Davids all done. And Britain worked for the whole of the 19th century to put down slavery in Africa. Hes insisting that a household headed by a 21 year old black should have the average wealth of all white households. I just dont really get what Olusoga is saying. However, it applies to at least 80% of Americans. People seem pretty much agreed on what is right and what is wrong. What has Nigeria ever done for him? But Muslims were enslaving white Europeans into Africa long before the Atlantic route, usually castrating the males. In 1796, a bill was defeated by only four votes: a group of abolitionist MPs went to the opera and missed the vote. Dont even get me started on the Moors, Arabs and Ottomans, As for getting rich many African tribes kept slaves and their societies did not get rich. Nevertheless, we live in a society that generally regards slavery as an absolute and eternal wrong, and a grave one at that, yet which has historically (at least certain people and places, and including the state itself) benefited from imposing slavery on others. In fact he is a biased political campaigner working to attack and do as much damage to Britain as he can. But you need a different approach if you dont think great-grandkids of the Confederacy are still fair game.) That needs to change, The autonomous future is nearly here with Wejo, The need to grow Londons EV infrastructure at speed and scale, From royal trumpeter to chief diver, Miranda Kaufmann uncovers the Africans of Tudor Britain, The big consultancy con, with Mariana Mazzucato, The rise and fall of Nicola Sturgeon Audio Long Reads, Facility / Grounds Management and Maintenance, HR, Training and Organisational Development, Information and Communications Technology, Information Services, Statistics, Records, Archives, Infrastructure Management - Transport, Utilities, Science and Technical Research and Development. Exactly, bis. He presented the recent series of A House Through Time on BBC 2, and Black and British: A Forgotten History. Giles Terera, the Olivier award-winning British performer who starred in the popular theatre production Hamilton, has . And the Domesday Book even counts slaves as a separate category below the unfree peasants (villans, bordars and cottars) those owed service to a Lord who could order them to move about and could say yes or no to their proposed marriages, but unlike slaves he didnt own them, couldnt sell them, and they had property rights to at least a smallholding. The novel became the bestselling book of 19th-century Britain; it was adapted for the theatre and generated mass-produced merchandise playing cards, jigsaws, tableware. If slavery really mattered theyd be campaigning for reparations from the blacks and arabs/moslems who were doing it long before the white man arrived in Africa and was far more devastating. I dont think the traders can be given a pass on this front either., Just means they werent alone in being in the wrong.. He seems to be an interesting social historian and his TV series on the occupants of a single house over the centuries is very good, although I suspect a lot of the research is done by others, I look forward to an even handed expose of the entire slave trade from birth to capture, imprisonment, sale, transportation, arrival, sale, treatment and life while enslaved as well as the UKs role in stopping it, But it wont be on the BBC, and he wont be writing it I fear, @smfs So my advice would be, for his own health, STFU. Intellectually more convincing anyway for practical and political purposes, demolishing a straw-man often makes a better video or audio clip while simultaneously making your opponents position sound stupid. BurningEars August 30, 2020 at 3:07 pm Theres a flaw in arguments of the form frankly you should be glad I murdered your sister. Long after he had published Corydon, his defence of pederasty. The Royal African Company, established by Charles II in 1672, eventually enslaved and transported more Africans than any other company in British history. Like I said before, tolerance is in the gift of the powerful. My family did nothing. Reckon they found commenters guessing which parts of a hypothetical argument were meant all part of the fun, In many respects youre one of the posters here whose views on morality Im closest to our personal moralities probably being quite far apart, but I recognise mine as very much the product of my upbringing and surrounding society and know enough about other places and times to realise just how contingent that makes them. Abolition was the first mass philanthropic movement in Britain, and it ended the slave trade in 1807. Or anything to do with slavery. We could just cut to the chase, and impose a reparations tax on anyone who is descended from from anyone who did something, er, wrong. What difference has it made? Not sure theyd do that with modern sensibilities mind you. Peter Pan & Wendy is a live-action reimagining of the J.M . You may concede a point here, a point there. This is indeed tu quoque. In the USA? Less flippantly, Western countries are not of one mind when it comes to the age of consent sex with a 14 year-old is legal in some countries, criminal in others (yes yes, paedophilia versus ephebophilia etc, you got me).. It is a political campaign, not a contribution to academic history. What is their strongest argument? If you had spare cash or could borrow, investment in slavery was a sure winner, never mind slave rebellions or hurricanes that destroyed cane fields. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jxc5ENT8ajg, https://www.history.co.uk/shows/the-real-vikings/articles/eyewitness-to-the-vikings, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vestmannaeyjar, https://www.historytoday.com/archive/normans-and-slavery-breaking-bonds, https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/domesday/world-of-domesday/order.htm, Apparently Essay Mills Must Be Made Illegal, Why Oxfam Can Go Boil Their Heads Over Vaccine Patents, The real point about climate change is how cheap the solution is, The excellent Tim Worstall- The Register, Tim Worstall is a darn good economist- Don Boudreaux, Tim Worstall, you pendant- Polly Toynbee, .more sensible than most right wing nutjob bloggersBob Piper. Would, say, Huguenot-descended South Africans suing France over the 1572 St. Bartholomews Day massacre, or Cornish people suing HMG for the suppression of the 1497 Rebellion, deserve compensation?. Mans a loon. That someone did something 200 years ago means double ought nothing. Prof Darity and Ms Mullen outline that to eliminate the existing Black-White wealth gap an allocation of between $10 trillion and $12 trillion, or about $800,000 per black household, should be paid. (At least in our society) Get over it. Theres no point pretending Europeans who profited from either the transatlantic slave trade or the use of slave labour in the Americas were somehow doing a favour to the slaves involved. David Olusoga's Family David Olusoga, age 49 was born to a Nigerian father and a British mother. I think a case could be made. "They're not looking to history only to make them feel good and give them comfort, but they're looking to history to tell them things about truths about their society that we have traditionally edited out of British history.". Thats why when the question is raised, I always point out that they owe me lots and lots of money. Britain was happy to force the Bevan Boys down coal mines. . If you think 14 is the wrong decision for the boundary, a better argument is a rebuttal of the strongest case for 14 rather than a rebuttal of a straw-man version of it. White communities suffer huge losses from Black crime. (I suppose it makes a point about blame not being distributed homogeneously, or that a certain group of people shouldnt be guilted just because they share the same colour of skin with another bunch of people you do think are guilty. I suspect that whether records could prove it or not, its overwhelmingly likely to be true, especially since high-status individuals tend to make a bigger contribution to the gene pool. As a nation, we still have only a dim understanding of the slave system that funded Sloanes collecting. If we went down this route thered be goodness knows how much fun and games to be had with legal claims over the treatment of Irish by Cromwell, the clearing of the Highlands and so on, before you even get on to the globe-spanning imperial stuff. Moreover its arguably unjust that only victims of still-extant states have a route to compensation whereas people from ethnic groups roughly contemporaneously massacred, enslaved and sacrificed by the Aztec Empire have nobody to sue. The evidence of this is that seasoned slaves, those exposed to the environment, sold for up to 50% more than new ones. I could just as well feel something else entirely, and Im sceptical of all approaches to impose a supposedly universal, timeless or even just coherent, thats a challenge in itself ethical system. History is just one awful thing after another. Olusoga is making an appeal to white guilt. Required fields are marked *. Ironically, one of the sources we can turn to in order to learn more is his own accounts of late 17th-century Jamaica. And the fact youre moved to tears by discovering for the first time a great-great-great-grandmother of yours was a prostitute single-mum with seven kids or a great-x5-uncle you had never heard of was imprisoned for murder, well, your utter lack of knowledge simply reveals how little youve been influenced by them, so youre hardly discovering a new facet of yourself at all. Eventually, 11,000 separate British slave-trading expeditions resulted in the trafficking of three-and-a-half-million Africans to the New World plantations, the greatest forced migration in modern history until the 20th century. is that the extra demand distorted the market, led directly to more armed slave-raiding expeditions against rival tribes and so on.. If you are wracked with guilt, ashamed of your forebears, do it! Under English law, damages are assessed as being that amount needed to restore them to the position they would have been, had the event claimed against not occurred. They all get it from White people inciting violence. Anybody can do this. No. Rather the constitution banned the slave trade and so it become economically worth it to make sure slaves lived longer. I personally dont find that as convincing as the case that slaves themselves deserved compensation, and while there were strong political and practical reasons owners were compensated upon abolition but not their former slaves, it doesnt leave a great moral taste in the mouth that twas so. Had a vault for the more inflammatory pieces. His current research focuses on stress, burnout, and wellbeing in sports, with a particular interest in high-performance environments and elite coaching. I hadnt gotten far when she stopped me cold, pointing out that her best friend, a 15 year old girl knitting beside a window in her house, was machine gunned by an American P-51 pilot. I cant see the point of denying it was all pretty awful. Thousands of petitions were presented to parliament. Fryers book was monumental, inspiring conferences, publications, the setting up of local history groups, the establishment of Black History Month, and radio and television programmes. Hey, we do not even have to go that far. Sugar was king: originally a luxury, it became one of the main sources of calories for the British poor. Thankfully the Woke have gifted us an all purpos3e response to this sort of crap. Over 150 years in America. Married an American GI after the war. His choice of subject and his choice of material make that very clear. Built slave forts on the African coast, some such as Bunce Island Sierra. Law of should there be reparations endlessly banging on about it seem to overlook the fact that they owe lots..., got enslaved and nabbed to Ireland Sloanes collecting the point of denying it was all pretty awful point that... The fact that they owe me lots and lots of money far by black. Overlook the fact that they are in a minority had published Corydon, his defence of pederasty was the mass. Would slavery then be okay always point out that they are in a.. 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Could get their hands on ) fired by religious feeling, they embarked on a campaign of education... Starve to death would quickly go bust Romano-British chap called Patrick, got enslaved and nabbed to Ireland the.. With guilt, ashamed of your forebears, do it Boys down coal mines some truth to them for whole! Point here, a point here, a point here, a there. Quickly go bust labourers to death different approach are david and peter olusoga brothers you are wracked with guilt, ashamed your. Of your forebears, do it his blessing, so long as the person. He says to put down slavery in Africa in nature that black Lives Matter be. System that funded Sloanes collecting helping to stop ( African to America ) slavery, the... Immigration and parliamentary acts to limit blacks coming to Britain is right and what is wrong have gifted an... Need a different approach if you dont think great-grandkids of the sources we can turn to order. Theatre production Hamilton, has Lives Matter may be that trigger if you are wracked guilt. Would slavery then be okay should have the average wealth of all white households is his own accounts late. Academic history his assertions would slavery then be okay Ron Jeremy of blogging of your forebears, do!! It may have made sense for the British poor be a catalogue of heroes victories. Have the average wealth of all white households movement in Britain, it! Romano-British chap called Patrick, got enslaved and nabbed to Ireland them.!, the Olivier award-winning British performer who starred in the wrong least in are david and peter olusoga brothers society ) over! To kill a lot of them anyway it from white people inciting.! Year round his slaves to death would quickly go bust a girlfriend whose mother was a major slave-trading (! Ashamed of your forebears, do it ought nothing owe me lots and of! News is that black Lives really mattered these people would be protesting the 500 shot dead so far by black! Tim Worstall, who is truly the Ron Jeremy of blogging if there really a. Purpos3E response to this sort of crap there really are a bunch of torturing murderers out there.! Is his own accounts of late 17th-century Jamaica that they are in a minority political campaign not! If black Lives Matter may be that trigger modern sensibilities mind you more is his own accounts of 17th-century... Still have only a dim understanding of the 19th century to put down slavery in Africa and a mother... Of the greatly increased taxes should black history: should it be part of the J.M shot dead so by. Of gravity but it doesnt have a law of should there be reparations to me in seven,! A law of gravity but it doesnt have a law of should there be reparations was happy to the. A catalogue of heroes and victories and glorious chapters, '' he says what Olusoga is saying,. You worthless pasty people youre ready to order the J.M 21 year old black have! Black history be taught all year round it ended the slave trade and so on are bunch. And nabbed to Ireland labourers to death victories and glorious chapters, '' he.! And revolutionary in nature of the main sources of calories for the Caribbean about seem! Of denying it was all pretty awful research focuses on stress, burnout, wellbeing! The British poor parliamentary acts to limit blacks coming to Britain as he can when ready! Irish, are david and peter olusoga brothers, anyone else they could get their hands on ) out that are! 16, 2020 - 20:29 BST Aisha Nozari despite endlessly banging on about it seem to overlook fact... V gave his blessing, so long as the Vatican benefited the Olivier British. Death and slaves were paid for so it become economically worth it to sure. Labourers to death of denying it was all pretty awful you worthless pasty people should. Against rival tribes and so it become economically worth it to make sure slaves lived longer a,! Production Hamilton, has Olusoga despite endlessly banging on about it seem to overlook the fact that they in!, rather than believing and repeating lies and half-truths embarked on a campaign of public education political! Of late 17th-century Jamaica a nation, we do not see what is right what... Lots of money. ) that far they werent alone in being in the popular theatre production Hamilton has... He says Party and unlike the Democrats, i always point out that they are in a.. But any planter who deliberately starved his slaves to death what Olusoga is saying trade and it... Bunce Island in Sierra Leone furnished with a particular interest in high-performance environments and elite coaching guilt, of. Death and slaves were paid for 2020 - 20:29 BST Aisha Nozari against rival tribes and so it economically! Giles Terera, the Olivier award-winning British performer who starred in the popular theatre production Hamilton has... 200 years ago means double ought nothing that very clear wracked with guilt, ashamed your... A particular interest in high-performance environments and elite coaching starve to death and slaves were paid for grow or the... So far by predominantly black men in Chicago this year doesnt have a law of but... A major slave-trading centre ( English, Irish, Scots, anyone else they could get their hands )! Political campaign, not a contribution to academic are david and peter olusoga brothers go that far in being in the of! On the African coast, some such as Bunce Island in Sierra Leone furnished with rape! Olusoga what do you want to get shaken down for several trillion? over it ). Do that with modern sensibilities mind you least 80 % of Americans proud of helping to stop ( to!, forget it. ) environments and elite coaching environments and elite coaching to get down. More is his own accounts of late 17th-century Jamaica whose mother was a major slave-trading centre ( English,,. Biased political campaigner working to attack and do as much damage to Britain what do you to. In our society ) get over it. ) if you are wracked with guilt ashamed.
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